Chat Transcript 20180928 Student Classroom Engagement

13:08:01 From Steven Gilbert : Hello out there! Pls try this survey https://goo.gl/forms/0C8OfNoxTAfz9yXU2

13:44:35 From Steven Gilbert : https://goo.gl/forms/0C8OfNoxTAfz9yXU2
13:45:54 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : https://goo.gl/forms/0C8OfNoxTAfz9yXU2
13:47:38 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : http://nsse.indiana.edu/html/about.cfm
13:47:59 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : http://nsse.indiana.edu/html/about.cfm
14:05:09 From lucyonline : Online Classroom or FTF or both?
14:06:41 From Steven Gilbert : https://docs.google.com/document/d/177rmwfzJ89Gd8pup_mAMT2z3nbEgdln7RGAKJkn1eqg/edit?usp=sharing
14:14:00 From lucyonline : My online students don’t call it distance learning, they haven’t gone anyplace. They are at home learning or …
14:14:33 From Steven Gilbert : Sometimes, I might be chewing my sandwich, so i’m muting my sound and stopping my video! but i am still ENGAGED!
14:14:46 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : ah because I could be covertly engaged.
14:14:46 From Dale Parker : Or halfway watching what is going on in DC like I confess I am doing
14:15:29 From Steven Gilbert : Uh oh. Dale, pls don’t report on the dismal procedure unless it is very surprising!
14:15:52 From lucyonline : Some students say that they have to talk to be counted online or they are not considered “there”!
14:15:55 From Dale Parker : Ok
14:16:21 From Dale Parker : No surprises!
14:16:45 From Tom Tu : Student engagement is difficult to measure in both the synchronous learning environment like this Zoom session or in an asynchronous environment like an online class.
14:18:33 From Dale Parker : Absolutely Tom
14:18:58 From Steven Gilbert : NSSE – freshmen & seniors… engagement in classroom AND other areas of the institution;
14:19:21 From lucyonline : Thanks for the Community College survey
14:19:49 From Steven Gilbert : NSSE – can compare student engagement levels between different institutions
14:21:44 From Steve Ehrmann : Engagement seems to have two kinds of definition. One refers to the student’s state of mind – how are they conceiving their role – recipient of knowledge or , in effect, creators of their own learning. It’s very difficult to read students’ minds, however. The other family of definitions refer to observable behavior that permits the inference that the student is engaged, e.g., writing a 10 page paper based on evidence; participating in a debate.
14:21:46 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : Steve, could you mute the open mic
14:22:34 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : mgiacobbe, please mute your microphone
14:22:59 From mgiacobbe : Sorry, done
14:23:27 From lucyonline : Easier to read students’ minds online, if they are in discussion groups. As an English prof, I assign peer editing, small groups of 3 – 5.
14:25:40 From Jun Y : how do you measure student engagement in the synchronous learning environment?
14:26:21 From Tom Tu : Thank you, Steve E.!
14:26:34 From Steve Ehrmann : You’re welcome!
14:26:43 From Dale Parker : I put it in Diigo
14:28:48 From Douglas Eder : Perhaps the best use of NSSE to examine engagement came from Maureen Mancuso of Guelph University. She and her colleagues were concerned about the high number of DFWs. Together, that looked at NSSE that was administered to students after acceptaance but before enrollment and compared those results to those gathered traditionally at the end of the first year. The difference that called the “Disapppointment Index” because students expected college work to be a lot harder than it turend out to be and also expected a lot more engagement with faculty members. The also compared the traditional first year results with those gathered from seniors. They called the difference the Experience Index. Those results showed that seniors found they could get by with good grades by studying and participating a lot less than they initially expected. Taken together, these ressults revealed that students weren’t engaged because (a) students expected more faculty engagement and (b) there was a lot of unused engagement.
14:28:54 From Steve Ehrmann : What was the question again? (for which these are the responses)? What is engagement in f2f classroom?
14:29:08 From Douglas Eder : The lack of engagement was due to lack of challenge.
14:29:55 From lucyonline : I have a PhD Dissertation on my Freshman Composition class, which documented all different kinds of engagement, from how long does it take to get an question answered in an async class. The data looked at having the question answered from faculty as well as students. Data showed that all questions were answered within 24 hours and then detailed from faculty or from other students.
14:30:10 From Steve Ehrmann : The crux of the challenge: how to assess whether a silent student in a traditional classroom is engaged.
14:30:28 From Tom Tu : @Jun Y: I think there are a lot of similarities to measure student engagement in the synchronous environment to the face-to-face environment, for the occasions that the instructor and the students can see/talk with each other with the assistance of technology.
14:31:14 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : There is such a thing as covert engagement. Students are thinking not necesarily acting
14:32:12 From Dale Parker : I think it is important that there is an opportunity to hear all voices. It is sometimes a challenge to get everyone involved. I wish I had a penny for every time I said can we hear from someone else? Some students are just more vocal and some quieter because of personality beside texting etc.
14:32:28 From pcancro : yes
14:32:32 From Jun Y : agree
14:32:37 From Bonnie Mullinix : figit spinners
14:32:41 From pcancro : fidget spinners
14:32:48 From Jun Y : how to get everybody engaged
14:33:22 From pcancro : Trainers Warehouse catalog (more corporate training) – “fiddle faddles”
14:33:22 From Steve Ehrmann : Puzzle: suppose I am listening to a great lecture, actively questioning what I’m hearing, working to see how this new information relates to what I already know. I start thinking more deeply about one of those points. Perhaps I use my device to get some background info. Meanwhile I’ve totally stopped listening to the lecture. Am I engaged? or disengaged? (I don’t have an answer)\
14:33:30 From Tom Tu : Experts of spinning pens or pencils!
14:34:02 From lucyonline : I had a student from online come to visit the same class in the classroom, but didn’t show. When asked she said, the classroom was set up with tables and she would have to T
14:34:27 From lucyonline : TALK. Where as online she was very talkative
14:35:51 From mgiacobbe : Yes, I agree that online is easier than F2F for many students to communicate; quality & quantity of responses are different
14:36:11 From pcancro : I like polleverywhere!
14:36:29 From pcancro : THey just added a new function (even in the free version) – competitions
14:36:37 From pcancro : polleverywhere.com
14:36:46 From Steve Ehrmann : mgiacobbe and lucyonline – are we talking about asynchronous or synchronous online?
14:36:48 From lucyonline : I’ve been in an online classroom with a synchronous discussion going online at the same time. Faculty read the discussions after the class and could see attention to task or not and document this.
14:37:05 From Steven Gilbert : GENERATIONAL?
14:37:32 From Steven Gilbert : Technology, Learning, Engagement….?
14:37:38 From lucyonline : Classroom communication – some students will text rather than post in a forum.
14:38:07 From Dale Parker : I am really OLD. I have a habit of taking notes when listening to something interesting with a pen and paper!
14:39:21 From G emerich : We have a young, dynamic instructor here at UMD that bans all mobile devices in f2f (unless they have an accommodation) – he is also the director at the Teaching and Learning center and runs a workshop where he gives his views on no devices in the morning. The afternoon is an instructor that engages using devices
14:39:34 From mgiacobbe : Some are slow processors
14:39:57 From Steve Ehrmann : I’m more likely to engage with what’s going on in a classroom if I can talk some of the time (though figuring out to say can distract me from what the instructor or other students are saying at that time) If the lecture is unbroken by discussion I’m more likely to drift away.
14:40:32 From Marilyn Goodrich : Dale I am the same way—I have my notebook while others are typing away.
14:40:43 From lucyonline : Online respects the reflective learner.
14:41:02 From Steve Ehrmann : Great point, Lucy. Thanks!
14:41:20 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : This resource characterizes covert and overt engagement. http://iflex.innotech.org/GURO21/Module2/l3_9.html
14:41:26 From Steven Gilbert : JohnM: “how students PERCEIVE their classroom” … better to be in the part of the arrangement in which the instructor is physically present…
14:42:11 From lucyonline : Again the locus of control plays. No engagement unless the instructor is there!
14:43:51 From G emerich : no sound
14:43:52 From lucyonline : Faculty need strategies to reach students in other “rooms.
14:44:09 From Steven Gilbert : IN WHAT WAYS DO PARTICIPANTS/PRESENTERS PERCEIVE THAT THEY ARE IN THE SAME SPACE OR NOT? HOW DOES IT MATTER? WHAT CAN MODIFY THOSE PERCEPTIONS?
14:44:56 From Steven Gilbert : LM/Oregon example: speech pathology asst program.. MUST enable students to speak and be heard.
14:44:56 From Steve Ehrmann : I’ve seen a counter example — a student who apparently would speak in f2f classrooms but was reluctant to speak in a synchronous discussion because people she didn’t know and couldn’t see might be judging her.
14:45:04 From pcancro : How do we provide more engagement in the online classes – besides the discussion prompts?
14:45:49 From Steven Gilbert : SteveE … also issue of people who are less adept at typing, writing/editing/spelling and or have poor tech acces
14:45:51 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : make the engagement opportunities purposeful and related to the learning
14:46:06 From Carl Thelen : We had the opposite of Steve E, students engaged more easily in online because “no one’s looking at me”
14:46:26 From Carl Thelen : And, AFTER the online session, they engaged much more F2F.
14:47:36 From Steve Ehrmann : Carl, was it a synchronous videoconference?
14:48:01 From Carl Thelen : Yes, using Adobe Connect
14:48:13 From Douglas Eder : From an assessment perspective on engagement, Tom Angelo and Barbara Walvoord were two scholars who asked the question, What is the classroom being used for — either F2F or online? If it is used merely to repeat or underline what is already in the readings, then students are likely to be less (or un-) engaged than if the classroom is used for get work done that cannot be achieved individually. Hence, their recommendations focused on using the classroom (virtual or otherwise) to achieve work and _use_ content and the time away from class to read, memorize, and encounter content. Using, applying, and synthesizing is more complex than memorizing, and it is the former, according to the literature, that benefits most from instructors’ presence.
14:48:18 From Tom Tu : Did someone associate student engagement with John Keller’s ARCS Model of Motivation? – Attention; Relevance; Confidence; and Satisfication.
14:49:23 From reo : @pancro COI model general is one kind of answer: https://coi.athabascau.ca/coi-model/
14:50:36 From Marilyn Goodrich : For some online courses faculty members are using H5P interactive tools to engage students in the Canvas LMS. After they read, watch, or discuss something they are able to use these tools to practice for a quiz, apply their knowledge to activities.
14:51:01 From Marilyn Goodrich : https://h5p.org/content-types-and-applications
14:51:03 From Carl Thelen : Yes, H5P is great, we use the interactive video quizzes
14:51:33 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : Many many years ago, when I was involved in ITV, we employed a site facilitator at all remote locations. The site facilitator wasn;t necessarily in the room the entire time
14:52:26 From Steven Gilbert : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JBEaii0YgoyxHZc8sF6HFa5RtcUv_USriCAYMS1vALI/edit?usp=sharing
14:52:45 From Marilyn Goodrich : I am sorry-I need to get onto another meeting I am hosting. Thank you all for the chats. I really enjoyed reading and listening.
14:53:28 From Bonnie Mullinix : @Marilyn – thanks for sharing your examples/experiences
14:54:07 From Tom Tu : @Marilyn – Thank you for joining us!
14:56:12 From Lee Anne Johnston : Apologies. I need to leave. Thank you!
14:57:13 From pcancro : I will watch the reording so I can catch up on what I missed
14:57:38 From Tom Tu : @Lee Anne Johnston: Thank you!
14:58:04 From Tom Tu : @pcancro: Sounds good! Thank you for joining us!
14:58:35 From Jun Y : Maybe not
14:59:08 From pcancro : engagement in some way I think opens the learners eyes to a more involved learning experience
14:59:11 From Carl Thelen : I think engagement is an indicator of learning, but not a substitute.
15:00:14 From pcancro : I think of non-engaged as shutting down and not participating and missing the goals of the content – or something like that 😀
15:01:06 From Dale Parker : Interesting
15:01:52 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : I like your point Lucy re: the self regulated learner. Maybe another question has to do about the faculty role or not in helping student develop independent l;earning skills
15:03:25 From pcancro : I teach ungrads – including adfults and #6 is definitely an issue
15:03:41 From mgiacobbe : Agree!
15:03:50 From pcancro : #22
15:04:17 From Dale Parker : Learning styles
15:04:40 From pcancro : I still have issues with #20 with some of my online students – who are new to online – and some of my adult students
15:05:49 From Bonnie Mullinix : Nice to see everyone here today. I have to run, so I’m wishing everyone a good remaining discussion and a lovely weekend!
15:06:11 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : I think that engagement needs to be tied to learning not engagement for engagement sake
15:06:17 From Steven Gilbert : What can DISENGAGE STUDENTS ????
15:06:57 From Steven Gilbert : “ENGAGED STUDENTS” VS. “DISENGAGED STUDENTS” VS. “MURKY MIDDLE”
15:07:00 From Carl Thelen : Some classes are more engaged than others, the students in the class tend to be more or less engaged than another class section. Each group of students has its own culture.
15:07:36 From Steven Gilbert : HOW ADDRESS THE “MURKY MIDDLE” ??? HOW IDENTIFY THE “MURKY MIDDLE”?
15:07:45 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : makes sense
15:08:18 From Steven Gilbert : LM: 3 on likert scale is “murky middle”
15:08:40 From Douglas Eder : NSSE is one of many surveys that revealed that US students generally graduate with B+ averages DESPITE the findings that many students are not engaged and that they study an average of about 10 hours per week, which is much less than the 2-hours-outside-for-every-hour-in-class expectation.
15:09:12 From Douglas Eder : So a question is, why should students change their engagement habits if they can succeed as a group by doing what they are presently doing?
15:09:24 From pcancro : advice to explain “substantive responses”?
15:09:38 From pcancro : yes! to examples and templates
15:09:41 From Steven Gilbert : HOW TO BE CLEAR, EXPLICIT ABOUT DESIRED BEHAVIOR THAT IS THE KIND OF STUDENT ENGAGEMENT THAT IS BEING SOUGHT?!!!
15:09:59 From Flavio Argueta : The use of RUBRICS
15:10:07 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : I lke what Lucy is saying. What do we mean by engagement as well as why you would even want to be engaged
15:10:15 From Flavio Argueta : I agree Models/Examples
15:10:26 From pcancro : @Beth – agreed!
15:11:00 From Steven Gilbert : LM: models, examples …. metacognition for engagemetn

15:11:26 From Flavio Argueta : We can also role play as instructor

15:11:45 From Steve Ehrmann : I’ve found this session very helpful!
15:13:11 From Steve Ehrmann : Snackable learning in the service of students projects (just in time learning)
15:13:47 From pcancro : this is a point we’re dealing with right now at my institution (faculty creativity if the course shell is “locked”)
15:14:25 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : John and Jim, thoughts on a planning date and time?
15:14:30 From Steve Ehrmann : The Minecraft topic was opaque for me. I have no idea what the new paradigm might be.
15:15:13 From John Munro : morning (mid-10 or so?) wednesday?
15:15:29 From Dale Parker : I have to go see you next time
15:15:36 From Steven Gilbert : explina to students WHY we advocate student engagement?
15:16:06 From Steven Gilbert : Planning for Oct 12 could be Wed 10am Oct 3??
15:16:18 From mgiacobbe : Thank you, great session
15:16:26 From Steve Ehrmann : It requires a paradigm shift of many students to understand engagement as we do. They either systematically misinterpret what we’re saying or find it unintelligible. (Shifting from paradigm of teacher pouring knowledge in students’ ears to paradigm of student developing and owning their own learning (self-regulated).
15:16:40 From Steven Gilbert : 11amET Wed Oct 3 planning for oct 12
15:17:28 From Steve Ehrmann : $49.28
15:17:37 From Steven Gilbert : $49.28 special for individual membership 1 year (new or renewal!) Sallygilbert@tltgroup.org
15:18:37 From Steven Gilbert : “High Impact Practices” AACU
15:19:43 From Steven Gilbert : TT First Year Experience; Senior Experience (Capstone)
15:20:07 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : do we have an operational definition for student enagement?
15:21:22 From Beth Dailey, TLT Group : Steve Ehrmann, I love how you described snackable learning, Snackable learning in the service of students projects (just in time learning)
15:23:01 From Steven Gilbert : INCLUDE STUDENTS IN CONSIDERING, PLANNING, … EFFORTS FOR IMPROVING STUDENT ENGAGEMENT!
15:23:31 From Steve Ehrmann : Thanks, Beth.
15:24:52 From Steve Ehrmann : Beth, in puzzling out a definition for engaged learning, consider whether’s synonymous with active learning. I hadn’t thought about that before, but at first thought I’d say I’d use them as synonyms.
15:26:25 From Steven Gilbert : JS: HIGH IMPACT PRACTICES FOR OCT 12
15:26:25 From Tom Tu : Thank you Everyone! Have a great weekend!
15:26:27 From pcancro : bye all – read a good book instead 😀
15:26:29 From Steve Ehrmann : The news will still be there when you return from hiatus.
15:27:22 From pcancro : it’s hard to play a sad song on a ukelele – or a banjo
15:27:32 From Steve Ehrmann : bye

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